Preview Mode Links will not work in preview mode

Counsel to Counsel is a podcast for attorneys who are looking for insights to help increase their overall career satisfaction.  You can find it on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.  You can also listen to episodes from this home page.  In each episode, I introduce you to consultants who have been shaping the legal industry and attorneys who have done interesting and sometimes unconventional things with their careers.  My guests will share with you tips on how to achieve greater career and marketing success.

  1. All Episodes
  2. Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law

Episode 157-Planning Your Exit From the Law

Jun 7, 2025

Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.

Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.

In This Episode:

* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services

* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments

* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses

* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots

* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession

* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job

* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration

* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze

* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”

Additional Resources: